Comments on: Dad Disciplines Daughter Publicly; The Real Lesson

By: Nate

Nate — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:45:58 +0000

There is a difference in expressing ones self and just being completely disrespectful.

By: Amanda Z

Amanda Z — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:54:26 +0000

I think what troubled me most about this video is that I don’t see any action setting out to deal with the “heart issue” the daughter has. Dad wants to rant and rave, shoot things, and humiliate his daughter – and people laud this as appropriate punishment.

Clearly, there is a sin issue going on in both daughter’s life and dad’s (as we all have) – but as a father who wants to raise his child to be respectful and polite and to do what is right, he should be focused on the things that motivate her actions, not on the actions.

It grieves me we’ve gotten so far from the meaning of discipline. The word discipline has multiple meanings – at least five that I’ve found. Only one refers to punishment. The other four refer to appropriate training and behavior. When did discipline become about spanking and grounding and time-outs, and loose its focus on training correct attitudes and behaviors?

By: Sheila

Sheila — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:14:59 +0000

I agree with you, Kate. Consequences are important, but so is setting a good example. This might have been a fine consequence, but it was a terrible example. He’s trying to teach her, “When you’re mad, you don’t lose your temper, cuss, and make a public scene.” But what he’s really teaching her is, “It’s okay to do those things, but only if you’re the grownup.” I remember feeling very upset about this as a child, when my parents would insist on things like no bad language, saying please and thank you, or certain table manners issues and then do the opposite themselves. I couldn’t wait to be a grownup so I could do whatever I wanted, because I honestly thought there were no rules for grownups.

Luckily, when I was a teenager, my parents and I had a very good relationship. They encouraged me to grow in responsibility and trusted me with a lot of independence. Sure, I complained about them to my friends sometimes. But that wasn’t a big deal to them; they didn’t read my email and they didn’t monitor what I said in public.

I probably would have made the daughter write a public retraction of her own, confessing to her friends that some of what she said was untrue. That’s just as public, just as embarrassing, but keeps the parent as the parent, not the fellow child lashing back.

By: Christy

Christy — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:13:55 +0000

I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I currently have 7 children between the ages of 13 and 22. They are good kids. Sometimes they hate me. I remember hating my mom – who was a wonderful woman – at their age. It is a very normal part of being a teenager and the push and pull that goes on. A teenager is a lot like a toddler – pushing to see how far they can go but like a toddler they truly need to know that their parents have limits, that they will do what they say. In this way they can count on their parents. Would I have shot the computer – no, I am too cheap to ruin a perfectly good computer. Would I have wiped it clean and given it away – heck yes. Would I have posted the whole thing to facebook? If I thought it would teach my child the lesson that they needed. Sometimes you need to do “drastic” things. Did he overreact – maybe. Was she out of line – absolutely. After reading the follow up post from his facebook I think his relationship with his daughter is good and normal. I guess what I am trying to say is that while I wouldn’t have handled this the way he did I believe he did what he thought was best. That is all any parent can do.

By: Kate

Kate — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:04:31 +0000

I just wanted to say, thank you so much for writing this post. I’m so glad you did.

By: Ginny Sloan Poole

Ginny Sloan Poole — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:29:37 +0000

I was that type of teenager. This daddy’s reaction is similar to what my daddy would have done in that situation…the only difference is that he would have tacked on “Now, I love you, but…” That one phrase always made the punishment “better,” in that (at least in my mind) I didn’t do that “crime” again. Like you said, we don’t know the situation/circumstances surrounding her letter. My hope is that she and her daddy had a heart-to-heart, with apologies from both sides, and have a better understanding of what’s expected from each other (since she is part of a split family, having divorced parents and possibly 2 step parents, there is bound to be some underlying cause of “misunderstanding.”)

By: Amber

Amber — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:26:58 +0000

Don’t we all have something to “get off our chest” at times? We can’t just go around ranting and raving to everybody and anybody who will listen. What would this teach our kids? Maybe that they aren’t required to exercise self-control and respect. No thanks…I’d probably shoot a hole through my kids computer too before letting them get away with such nonsensical behavior.

http://www.litefm.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=421220&article=9744152
Gotta love the daughter’s response to people acting like her father is a monster because he destroyed her laptop and taught her a hard, public lesson!

By: Amber

Amber — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:22:17 +0000

Thanks for the link Cassie. I figured it turned out something like that. So happy for daddy and daughter.

By: Amber

Amber — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:05:25 +0000

I believe public humiliation is a great tool to teach a lesson. After all, the daughter didn’t see a problem with publicly humiliating her parents. The punishment fit the crime. When adults do things wrong in/to the public they get publicly humiliated in the news where everyone knows who got that DUI last weekend or, if it’s more serious, they get judged by a panel of their peers.

I think teenage years are very difficult. Hormones rage, you are trying find out who you are, and a lot of kids “show off” for their friends by rebelling against even the best of parents. Heck, sometimes the kids are simply acting like brats because they are buddies with a bad influence who actually does have horrible parents.

Sometimes giving a child a good dose of their own medicine is just what the doctor ordered. To me, the dad pulling out his gun is nothing short of a good parent following through. He warned his daughter if she ranted on FB about her parents again he would put a bullet through her computer. Done! Lesson taught. Will it be learned? I’m sure she won’t be publicly disrespecting her parents in such an outright fashion again.

As far as dealing with why she is an angry child about chores, must we look so deeply? She is a teenager. Most teenagers have phases of being angry with their parents. Mainly because of what I mentioned previously about hormones and showing off, but it is also a time in which more responsibilities are expected because it is the transition from childhood to adulthood. Most kiddos aren’t too thrilled about having more responsibilities but soon they learn that that is exactly what they needed to be high functioning and thriving adults. They’ll appreciate these hard lessons when they get older.

This daughter will probably brag about her father when she has her own kids saying that he was serious enough with discipline that he shot holes through a laptop that he just spent a lot of money on just to teach her what she needed to know. Now that’s a parent who takes his role as father very seriously. Better than absentees and workaholics that have little or nothing to do with their children.

In general, we don’t need to be so quick to over-react and judge. Not a single one of us have ever been in this family’s shoes.

Kate, I loved how you posted on this. You watched it, took what you felt you needed to learn from it, and shared that with us. I like your take on parenting as it is probably more in line with how I am a parent. However, this daddy’s way of handling things is probably more in line with my hubby’s parenting style and that’s quite alright with me.

By: Kate Tietje

Kate Tietje — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:29:51 +0000

Jennifer, I don’t think it is healthy either for a parent’s identity to be wrapped up in how a child does. They ARE separate people. But when a child is crying out because of the parent-child relationship, or a behavior is repeated on several occasions, that’s a cue for the parent to look at him/herself. It seems that many parents don’t, because they believe that the majority of a child’s behavior is independent and doesn’t reflect on them, and that’s not true either. There is a middle ground, and parenting requires reflection for sure.

By: Cassie

Cassie — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:27:27 +0000

I think you wrote a great response and I agree with your approach! Did you see his update here: http://www.litefm.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=421220&article=9744152

I don’t think he totally redeems himself but I am glad, if it is truthful, it sound like they had some good conversation afterward and that maybe HE learned something through this as well. Apparently kids who “need” drastic measures to learn a lesson are created by parents who learn through drastic measures.

By: Karen Greenberg

Karen Greenberg — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:59:41 +0000

You make some really good points. I initially saw the video and thought that the shooting of the laptop was intimidating. To me, that shows how big and scary he can be. Even if that wasn’t his intended point, that was the feeling I got. You are right, if this was a husband people would be fearful for the relationship. I asked my husband what he thought (he didn’t actually see the video), and he, too, said that taking out the gun crossed a line.

The more I think about this situation, the more it bothers me. Publicly humiliating a child is never okay. The dad may have thought HE was being cute and teaching her friends a lesson, but that isn’t his job. Obviously the girl has something she needed to get off her chest. I got the impression, once the man mentioned the stepmother and the mother wanting a bullet to be put into the laptop, that there could be something happening with that dynamic.

Yes, I do believe children have a sense of entitlement, but you are right that the parents are the ones feeding into that. They seem to want to give kids “stuff” rather than guidance then don’t know how to handle when something goes wrong. This man said over and over how much time and money he spent fixing the laptop the day before. Did he want an award for that? We do things for those we love.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:53:34 +0000

Having worked with a lot of teenagers I just want to mention that most teenagers go through an angry at mom or dad phase; even the ones with great parents. There are a lot of hormones and emotions that are going through teenagers and it means that many of them make mistakes in how they interact and communicate with others. They are in the process of becoming independent human beings and part of that process is for them to establish their own identity away from their parents. There is a lot of trial and error in that phase. I think that it’s always a good idea to look at yourself as a parent first whenever your child does something to upset you, it often is a reflection of something you need to take care of in yourself. However, I think that having your own identity so wrapped up in your child’s decisions and mistakes that you blame yourself for every wrong they commit is very unhealthy. We are all sinful people and make bad choices at times. Sometimes my child’s temper tantrum is a reflection of his own sin nature, not something that I did to him or taught him. The trick is to deal with that in grace and love while allowing them to come to terms with the consequences of their actions.

By: Kate Tietje

Kate Tietje — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:46:31 +0000

Dawn,

I’m not suggesting no discipline or no natural consequences. If my kids say I’m mean (and they do), I say “That’s okay” and keep right on going. It is entirely possible to be firm and unwavering in the rules without being harsh. Gentle discipline does not equal wishy-washy parents. I’m going to post on this further since there is a lot of confusion about it.

By: Dawn

Dawn — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:20:50 +0000

I’m not sure I agree entirely. I do think his reaction might have been a bit over the top, he could probably benefit from reading “What Angry Kids Need”, but I suspect they are somewhat past that point right now (and ultimately, I don’t think it would’ve changed the consequence, just perhaps the delivery). On the other hand, until you have been in this situation, it is difficult to understand. My kids are a bit older than yours, five years old was a tipping point where some very difficult behaviors began. I found that I as a parent I acted in a way that I never thought I would act (please note, not in an abusive way, just not in the calm, contemplative way that I’d normally act, and that I’d read in all the parenting books, right?). And it tortured me. All this yelling, screaming, disrespect. I worried. I thought about how to do it differently. I thought about what people would think if they heard what was going on in here (lots of carrying-on on all sides). And ultimately, I thought about what my objective was. I decided that I wasn’t doing it all wrong, I was actually pretty close, but that the kids weren’t going to “get” it until I discussed why I was doing these things and letting them know that this is the way it is going to be. You do X, Y happens. And also remind myself, regularly, to calm down and not yell *first*.
There comes a point in every parent’s parenting career, I believe, that the kids realize the parents have a soft spot. And they exploit it. It is an evolutionary given. So the parents need to reassert their authority. Yes, we should all be respectful, but parents do NEED to be in charge, and “because I said so” is a legitimate answer in a pinch. We can’t overuse such platitudes, but kids need to know that their parents are in charge, we are the absolute authority, and we won’t negotiate or back down.
If that family is having a recurring problem with this type of behavior, while I don’t love the very public aspect of it, the public punishment does fit the crime. And it will give her an understanding of how it feels, even if she feels it was unjust, she won’t care to experience it again, and perhaps she will rethink doing it to others. And to be honest, the public comments may well help her to realize that her parents are not alone. Often I think it helps to see that your peers aren’t truly allowed any more privilege than you are, and that your parents have peers too. My kids often yell, “you’re so mean.” To which I respond calmly, “I’m not mean, I am your mother, but if you would like me to be mean, then I could certainly try to be meaner.” Sometimes I list some options… They usually change their minds, even though they know I’m a little tongue in cheek, because they do know that I could start removing privileges if they continue to be disrespectful…
But following through on consequences is important, and a consequence that fits the infraction is also important. And while you don’t want the relationship to be as adversarial as it looks, we have all been in a BIG FIGHT with our parents at some time, at least once. Once, when I had one as a teen, I went to stay with my dear, calm, wise Grandmother. She told me about a similar fight she remembered having with her mom! Some fifty plus years earlier! The parents setting firm limits, and explaining those limits (and any consequences earned) without negotiating, is important. And while I know there is a movement to avoid “punishing” our children, there is a consequence to everything we do, and if we protect our children from all consequences, and just TELL them that what they are doing is wrong, they will eventually have to learn the hard way, in the real world.
So while I guess this guy could have toned it down a little, I don’t think he was off the mark. A public rebuttal and the removal of the laptop and FB account are reasonable consequences, as long as he discusses with her his reasons for doing it the way he did at some point. And I was glad to see, although there is clearly a divorce here, he had discussed it with the girl’s mother, and they agree on the consequence (at least enough for her to ask him to put one bullet in for her). That is something, too.
Thanks, Kate, for all you do and share with us.

By: Amber Redmer

Amber Redmer — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:40:18 +0000

I appreciate your very well-thought out perspective — you are right – the underlying issue was/is a poor relationship between parent and child or parents and child — I felt very bitter growing up toward my parents because at 12 I was expected to have dinner on the table for my father and siblings and help them through homework because my parents worked opposite shifts. Whenever I expressed my anger or defiance I was viewed as ungrateful, hateful and unhelpful and so I grew up thinking that’s who I was, for a very long time… until counseling and heartfelt apologies from my parents came. —- Even though my initial thoughts were – controlled and mild-mannered Dad destroys laptop – kudos — there was something bothering my spirit about this and I couldn’t put it together. You did that beautifully. It was retaliatory, there was clearly issues going way beyond this — and my oldest is only 8 – but I’m going to have at least 5 go through the teenage years — and I want my relationship to be better with them then mine was (or clearly this girl’s is) with my parents. I’m not saying I want to be their best friend – I want them to respect and love me as their parent – but respect is hard to come by without a carefully planted relationship from which to harvest. Thanks for this.

By: Ann Daniel

Ann Daniel — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:06:32 +0000

I am so glad you wrote this. Everyone has been singing this guy’s praises and when I turned on the video last night, I ended up being more disgusted with him than with her. The Marriage and Family Therapist (I have a M.S. in it) in me saw the same things you pointed out and I just left thinking: “Boy, there is a girl who is never going to express herself again. Congratulations, dad. Censoring complete.”